eap Mailing List: RE: Relationship between AAA-Key and MSK/EMSK

[Joseph Salowey (jsalowey]

Hi Hannes,

I agree the definition of the AAA-key seems incomplete, I think the
definition is any key that is used by the authenticator and supplicant
to derive keys for data traffic protection (I don't think AAA-key is the
best name since it doesn't have to involve a AAA in the basic case).
In the case of standard 802.11 this AAA-Key the same as the MSK.  In the
fast handoff example I believe additional AAA-keys are pushed to
neighboring access points.  In order to provide computational
independence from the MSK they should be derived from the EMSK.  

I have submitted an issue in email
http://mail.frascone.com/pipermail/eap/2004-January/002143.html (which
has not yet been assigned a number) which describes how to derive keys
from the EMSK for specific purposes.   I think appendix e needs to be
updated as discussed in Issue 214
http://www.drizzle.com/~aboba/EAP/eapissues.html#Issue%20214.  I haven't
had time to take a detailed look at Jari's proposal.  I'm not sure why
the A-AAA-Key is needed in this derivation but it is equivalent to the
MSK.  

Could you provide some more context from your discussion?  What exactly
are you deriving keys to do? In my opinion it is best to use the MSK as
in the case of 802.11 (single authenticator to supplicant).  If keys are
going to be used for other purposes, between other parties or in other
ways they should be derived from the EMSK.  

Thanks,

Joe


eap-admin [at] frascone.com wrote:
> hi all,
> 
> this issue come up when we discussed (Yoshi, Alper, Jari) the
> relationship between the AAA-key and the MSK/EMSK in PANA .
> 
> it is said that the AAA-Key is derived from the MSK and EMSK.
> 
> the eap-keying document does not specify how this key
> derivation is achieved.
> worse, in Section 4.2.1 the text says:
> 
> "  The AAA-Key is derived from the keying material exported by the EAP
>    method (MSK and EMSK).  This derivation occurs on the AAA
> server.  In
>    many existing protocols that use EAP, the AAA-Key and MSK are
>    equivalent, but more complicated mechanisms are possible (see   
> Appendix E for details). "
> 
> appendix e, however, does not help since it talks only about
> a very special case, namely fast handoff.
> 
> we dicussed this issue in one of the eap keying design team
> phone conferences but it got lost somehow.
> 
> it would be more helpful to provide a proposal for AAA-Key to
> MSK/EMSK key derivation. 
> 
> ciao
> hannes
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